- Dr. Garcia is a psychiatrist in New Zealand who started questioning the official COVID narrative early on
- As a result of Dr. Garcia’s opposition to the mandates, his medical license was suspended
- Dr. Garcia is a member of a group of “dissenting” physicians called “New Zealand Doctors Speaking Out With Science”
- Currently some members of NZDSOS are in the trenches, supporting the peaceful people’s protest in the capital of New Zealand
(Mercola) This story is about the situation in New Zealand and about Dr. Emanuel Garcia, a courageous doctor in New Zealand who has been very outspoken about the wrongs of the COVID “health response.”
Early on, Dr. Garcia became courageously outspoken about the need to question the official COVID narrative, about early treatments, and about the safety issues associated with COVID injections. As a result of his opposition to the mandates, Dr. Garcia’s medical license was suspended.
Dr. Emanuel Garcia is a psychiatrist and also an accomplished writer. He received his medical degree from the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine in 1986. He’s had a long and successful career in psychiatry and psychoanalysis in the U.S. — and then in 2006, he immigrated to New Zealand where he practiced medicine until it became impossible to do so without getting the jab.
I had the joy of interviewing Dr. Garcia for my podcast, Make Language Great Again, and I am very happy to share the interview with him.
During our conversation, Dr. Garcia and I talked about his long career, the current dangerous state of medicine, the abusive nature of the current “health response,” and the need to remain both brave and creative during these challenging times. I am including the full transcript of the interview at the end of the article.
New Zealand Doctors Speaking Out With Science
Dr. Garcia is a member of an organization called “New Zealand Doctors Speaking Out With Science” (NZDSOS). Here is an excellent video of their press conference that took place in November 2021:
“It’s Time to Speak Against the Deprivation of Our Human Rights and Liberties”
Most recently, members of NZDSOS, including Dr. Garcia, have been in the trenches during the peaceful and festive gathering in Wellington, the capital of New Zealand. In the spirit of freedom and dignity, many people have come together in front of the Parliament to express their opposition to mandates.
The protest at the steps of the Parliament has now been going on for almost two weeks (at the time of writing this article). There has been one ugly clash with police but the outrage over police brutality across the country was so tremendous that the police was forced to change their attitude. No one can say what the future holds (there are rumors of a police buildup) but the people’s spirits are high!
Here is a glimpse of what’s going on in New Zealand right now, including a segment of Dr. Garcia’s talk.
“Life and Liberty Over Fear, Control, Segregation and Slavery”
In December 2021, Dr. Garcia’s delivered a passionate talk that was published on Transcend Media Service. I am sharing his entire talk as it is both eloquent and poignant.
It has been approximately two years since the virus that changed our world so suddenly and completely made its appearance in a far-away place in China. We were told that it jumped from a bat — cooked or uncooked, I couldn’t say — and we were soon thereafter shown pictures of soldiers hosing down the streets of Wuhan with disinfectant chemicals, and locking people up in their apartments.
We have been made to believe that this pathogen was so deadly that billions of people needed to be locked away for long periods of time around the world, prevented from travel, pleasure and association.
We were and have been daily assailed by numbers — the numbers of those ‘testing positive’ for COVID, the number of those dying from — or with? — COVID, day after day, over and over and over. Numbers, numbers, numbers, however dubious, numbers that kept marching on thanks to the mouthpieces of our ‘trusted’ Media.
Medical emergencies were declared worldwide but, strangely enough, these medical emergencies did NOT instigate a magnificent and powerful joining of forces to find a cure for this terrible infection, they did not result in concerted attempts to treat those who had fallen ill in order to prevent hospitalisation and death — no.
In fact, governments around the world, including ours here in New Zealand, have actively worked against attempts by physicians to do what they were trained to do and what they swore oaths to do.
Instead, world governments flexed their muscles to create unparalleled fear, to restrict, curtail and impinge upon human liberties and autonomy, to prevent us from associating freely with each other, and to convince us that the ONLY WAY to return to a normal which would never again be normal was to accept inoculations which they call vaccines but which neither prevent transmission nor infection of the virus they are supposed to be protecting us against.
At the same time the specific ingredients of these so-called vaccines are shrouded in secrecy, as are the business agreements made between the jab-makers and the governments who roll the jabs out and push relentlessly for nearly EVERYBODY to be jabbed, regardless of risk or age.
Here in New Zealand, as in many other places around the world, the jab is now being urged for our youth, those least likely to be adversely affected by COVID, despite the fact that NO long-term studies of safety and efficacy have been conducted — they can’t have been conducted because such studies take time, the time of many years.
Furthermore, as a result of our government’s recent dictate to mandate the jab for ‘frontline workers’, teachers, midwives, nurses and doctors and many other health practitioners who, despite their commitment, dedication, experience and expertise in their roles, have lost their valuable jobs.
In essence they made us an offer we couldn’t refuse, but guess what: many of us have refused, notwithstanding the consequences of losing our livelihoods, our careers, our incomes and the pleasures we had in serving the public. And many many others were simply coerced under duress to do something they knew in their hearts and souls they never wanted to do, under pain of economic devastation.
And what do we have now in our beloved Aotearoa? A never ending atmosphere of fear, the never ending threat that the liberties not yet impinged upon by our government can at any moment be extirpated. We are told to wear masks, we are told to keep our distance from each other, we are made to feel that we human beings are dangerous to one another.
We are now, sorrowfully enough, told that those who have exercised their right NOT to take into their sacred bodies a biological agent they have grave doubts about are somehow ‘unclean’ and should be discriminated against, should be segregated, and according to some of those in government, should actually be punished for daring to believe that they have a right to refuse a medical intervention — a right that has been specified in the Nuremberg Code and in the New Zealand Bill of Rights.
The unjabbed cannot now go to a movie or a play or a hairdresser or a rugby match or a restaurant or a cafe — all ostensibly in the service of ‘health’.
When has a healthy person ever been considered a danger before? What do those who are already jabbed have to fear from those who are not? Does any of this make any rational sense?
I ask you, is this the society we all wish to live in, is this the kind of life we wish to have for ourselves — a life controlled by governmental authority that has had the moronic audacity to declare itself a ‘single source of truth’, a life that will be governed by fear, anxiety, loss of liberty, freedom and essential human pleasure, a life where any debate about any aspects of health is ruthlessly suppressed?
Doctors who have questioned the rationale of COVID policies, who have questioned the wisdom of locking people down, who have questioned the safety of the inoculations, who have dared to promote natural immunity, who have begged for early treatments which are available and effective, who have suffered to learn of and have called attention to the many adverse effects and deaths reported in those who have been inoculated — these doctors are under ‘investigation’ by their Councils and have had licences suspended.
I am one such doctor. Thankfully I have taken steps to dissociate myself completely from the medical establishment, after having served for nearly sixteen years in the public health sector as a psychiatrist here in New Zealand and in the fifteen years before I emigrated to Aotearoa, as a psychiatrist and psychoanalyst in the United States of America.
However, despite all of the gathered and vicious opposition, there are many people who have worked heroically to encourage prevention, to establish early treatment protocols, to analyse the consequences of coercive measures, and to look with real science at the virus and the hastily developed ‘vaccines’.
There are many people who celebrate their humanity by refusing to be duped by the dance of absurdities — mask at the counter, mask off at the table, mask outdoors while riding a bike, one meter, two meters, one and a half meters, mask under the nose is okay, a healthy person is really sick or potentially sick, vaccines really don’t have to prevent you from getting the bug, natural immunity won’t work — and on and on and on.
It’s really ALL in the absurdities, isn’t it, because once they can get us to believe their patent absurdities, they can get us to do anything — like participating in apartheid under the guise of ‘health and safety’.
In the true spirit of science and human morality we should be asking questions, questions about everything. And the question above all we must ask ourselves is whether we value life and liberty over fear, control, segregation and slavery.
And finally, here is the full transcript of my interview with the brave Dr. Garcia.
Full Transcript of My Interview With Dr. Garcia on “Make Language Great Again”
Hello, and welcome to “Make Language Great Again.” Today it is my great honor and joy to talk to Dr. Emanuel Garcia, who is an amazing human being and my hero, because we need brave doctors like that. So, Emanuel Garcia is a psychiatrist, he got his medical degree from University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine in 1986, and he has been practicing in New Zealand. Thank you for doing this conversation. So if you want to say a few words about yourself …
Yeah, well, thank you very much. I really have been following your writings, and I really enjoy them. I think they’re really actually superb. And I want to congratulate you on what you are doing. And you’re … the articulation that you have the ability to really express things in a very, I think, very powerful and very, very compelling and solid way, is quite wonderful. So keep that up. It’s really great. You go I’m sure you have a lot of admirers now, with your writings.
Well, thank you.
Yeah, so about me … I graduated from Penn in 1986. And then I became a psychiatrist and trained in Philadelphia, and also became a psychoanalyst. And I practiced there as a psychiatrist, psychoanalyst, and psychotherapist from 1990 until 2006, when I immigrated to New Zealand, or I became basically a public health psychiatrist.
So I was doing very different work in the States, mainly I was doing, you know, psychoanalysis, psychotherapy. They were … that was my primary practice, basically: intensive psychotherapy … you know, psychoanalysis is a very engaging, long, engaging procedure, and what not.
And … and a little bit of … a little bit of public health, just towards the end of that stay. But what I also did during that time, for just over eight years, I was a consultant to a Conservatory of Music, the Curtis Institute of Music, which is like, if you know about Juilliard, it’s a Philadelphia, sort of Juilliard. It’s a bit smaller than Juilliard, very well known. Tremendous number of world class musicians have emerged from that school and have taught there, etc. It’s a great, great place.
And I was a psychiatric consultant for about eight years. And as a result, I got to really enjoy my work with highly accomplished creative people, and also to do things like start health education programs, and help with performance enhancement and what not.
So I’ve been in I had a great interest in music and some of my writings have dealt with the psychology of certain musicians like Rachmaninoff and Skryabin, and Bruno Vaulter at Gustav Mahler. For example, Gustav Mahler, who met with Freud for a very famous conversation in Leiden.
And I wrote some papers about these people. And as again, as an offshoot I … I developed a sort of a technique of very, super slow super self-practicing … to help with string players and to help their technical abilities. So that’s sort of a nutshell of some of my interests and whatnot.
That is quite amazing. And then 2020 happened?
Well, I’m doing … I’m here in New Zealand, practicing basic, very public health psychiatry, you know, which is general psychiatry, in a public health system. And, and it’s, it’s hard work, it’s very hard work, you have a lot of patients, the patients are in great duress.
The health system here, you know, like every health system, with mental health is struggling, struggling to fill gaps with nurses and other allied health practitioners and psychiatrists. But it was it’s very, very hard work. But I enjoyed the work, I think it was able to help a lot of people.
2020 happened, and it happened all across the world. And I would say that immediately, I began to detect … something was rotten in the state of Denmark. Nothing seemed to add up from the very, very beginning … from those images of the Chinese soldiers hosing the streets down in Wuhan with chlorine or whatever they were using, barricading people in their apartments, the story of the bat …
And then the issue about cases being confounded with people testing positive for something that, still as far as I know, is really not really been isolated the way they … the way they get the sequences of these called viruses is … it’s a very complex process. And I don’t know enough because I am not a virologist or an immunologist, to know all the details … but other people have looked into it.
As far as I know, the the … the virus or whatever, the virus that it’s going around, it’s not been purely isolated and what not. But let’s leave that aside.
2020 came and, as you know, the world the reaction of the world was really, it was almost in unison, like the conductor just said, “Okay, let’s go down to pianissimo,” and everything shut down. And it was absolutely amazing how, basically the entire world worked in concert, to, from their perspective, contain this deadliest pathogen in human history.
From perspective of … from my perspective, I think the policies were strange, they were contradictory. They were certainly incurred. They were incursions into the liberties of individuals. I think there’s no question about that.
The first time in history. When do you … when do you quarantine or lock down — and “lockdown” is a prison phrase, remember — the only time I’ve ever heard “lockdown” is a prison, basically, okay? When you lock down healthy people, and … and you look around other parts of the world, lockdowns were going on for a very, very, very long time … masks were imposed.
And there’s a whole issue about mask wearing and the efficacy of masks and … I, you know, I would encourage all of your listeners to look up and find data about whether masks actually prevent the transmission or infection of respiratory coronaviruses … social circle … social distancing … it’s interesting … it’s not social at all! It’s anti-social to distance people.
So “social distancing” came into play, restrictions came into play. And again, I would encourage your listeners to look up what is the science behind the two-meter rule, the two yard-rule, the one-yard rule, and a half-yard rule.
It’s a panoply of absurdities in a way, and my … my initial … my initial feelings as a thinking person would be, well, you know, you want to get a bid on whatever’s out there … you want to … you want to do things safely, etc., etc. … Perhaps shut … in New Zealand, they shut off the borders, which is why there were so few cases initially.
But after that, the goal here, the stated goal here was they were going to eliminate the Coronavirus altogether, that was their goal. I knew from the from the beginning that was a quixotic goal, we would not be able to eliminate a Corona respiratory virus, have to 1/3 of the common cold is a Corona respiratory virus, it’s going to travel around.
So what you should do, I think, my thought was, as a common sense approach, that … protect those who are vulnerable, like those with medical conditions or older, just like, they might be hit by the flu, you want to protect them from things, help them in whatever way you can, and basically aim for a natural immunity to develop.
And that has not been the approach they’ve taken here. They’ve taken a very interesting and … I think, quite draconian and dictatorial or totalitarian approach. So we find ourselves here under a now a traffic light system, which imposes a lot of restrictions — and most alarmingly, I think — and this will tie into other things that are going on around the world — they’ve created a jab apartheid system!
So that right now where I live, the unvaccinated are not allowed to go to cinemas, cafes, restaurants, sporting events, barbers, hair stylists. It’s, it’s, it’s unbelievable.
Okay, because the idea is that those who are not jabbed, and that is the … those who have decided not to take an agent that … for which there are no long term data, whose ingredients still remain shrouded in a great deal of mystery … and I think you’ve seen recently that now Pfizer’s — or FDA’s — petition not to release the Pfizer documentation, and then the Pfizer thing here until, like, for 75 years.
Yep, that’s the latest.
And so … so my question has always been, we should … we should have informed consent, we should know what’s in this thing, what it’s supposed to do, what it’s not supposed to do. People … many people think, oh, it’s just like the measles vaccine you get, you don’t get the measles again, everything’s great. Well, that’s not really true.
We know about the mRNA … mRNA technology … we know that neither it prevents transmission nor infection.
We know about the … spike proteins that are manufactured … we know that they go everywhere in the body, I think at this point … and I believe that people have a right to bodily autonomy! I think this is in the Nuremberg Code. It’s in New Zealand Bill of Rights. It’s in every human rights document around the world.
And yet, we see governments around the world, Austria, unbelievably so, in Germany, where they had troubles in the 30s, that were very similar to … discriminating against people and segregating them … and now even here, telling us that we’re really, we’re really the unclean, we’re dangerous!
And I’ll give you an example. I do some theater work, directing and acting and what not. And my local community theater group has informed me that if … if an unvaccinated … and I am unvaccinated … I don’t even like this term, an unjabbed person is not allowed to participate in rehearsals, productions, cannot even go to one of the presentations, one of the productions.
And … and I asked, why … how … I asked the question, by the way, how is a healthy person a danger? Tell me how a healthy person poses a danger to someone else? And no one can answer that question. They keep telling me, oh, it’s just about safety, safety. What’s unsafe about a healthy person, and especially about healthy persons in among the jabbed who are ostensibly protected? What do they have to fear? What are they worried about?
The pressure to get a jab is intense here, they’re trying to jab kids, young kids. I know two teenagers, for example, who, wisely, in my opinion, don’t want anything to do with this thing. And they are in the lowest risk group imaginable. Right? They don’t even get sick if they get the bug. And they are now barred from sporting competitions for which they’ve trained for many years. And they’re barred from socializing with their peers.
I mean, this is … what kind of society are we creating when we do this? This is atrocious. This is … I think it’s evil. Honestly, I think it’s absolutely evil.
And on top of all of that, those doctors like myself, who have tried to establish a dialogue and who have raised questions about these things, and who wanted to debate these things, really, you know, all these issues with … with science … and science is not by the way … science, there’s never one science, there’s no “the science” … science is a fluid enterprise, it’s always about knowing, adding, changing, revising, debating, etc.
Virtually any doctor was spoken out now is has been basically attacked by the Medical Council. I’ve had my license suspended. I’ve lost my position, because I … in part, because I did not … was not going to go along with the mandate that all healthcare practitioners get jabbed. I couldn’t abide that. And I took that opportunity to resign my position and retire from my work after 16, almost 16 years, with a very high caseload, by the way.
And furthermore, because I was accused in having discussions like I’m having with, you know, discussions about the jab, about health policy, about natural immunity … that’s a bad word nowadays! Do you know that “natural immunity” … you can’t say “natural immunity,” that’s considered misinformation. So you know, it’s absolutely insane!
So anyway … so I’ve had my license suspended by the Medical Council. I’ve said, I’ve severed my ties with them via common law as of very recently anyway, and whatever they’re going to do, they’re going to do, but I want to get out of it.
And I’m actually glad I’m out of that corrupt sick organization and … and the medical establishment generally, because I am really, I’m very disappointed at my colleagues … at my colleagues, doctors around the country, around the world, many doctors who know better, have sat back and said nothing.
And they’ve watched this tremendous cavalcade of adverse of adverse events and deaths that occur all around the world connected with these jabs, and they’re silent, or they’re complicit. So, that’s basically where I am right now. I’m unemployed. I’ve got no medical license under the Medical Council. And … and I’m living in society where there is a jab apartheid system at the moment.
Well, I thank you for your courage. I think when this dark nonsense finally passes, now, people like you will be remembered as heroes, and then people who complied will be actually embarrassed. I don’t wish punishment on anybody, but I think embarrassment will come. As I’ve observed it on the when the Soviet Union fell apart. That’s what’s happened. The people who were compliant and were on top of the hill, all of a sudden they were embarrassed. And …
Yeah, so I, you know, it’s interesting, I visited Soviet Union … several … I went to St. Petersburg about six or seven years ago, to give a talk on Skryabin. And I’ve always had a love for Russia and Russian literature. I grew up with Russian literature. The great Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Solzhenitsyn, for example. And I knew Ignat, Alexander’s son [who] was a conductor and a pianist.
And he went to Curtis, by the way … in any case, so I know, through my readings and through contact with people from Russia, whom I’ve worked with at Curtis, for example, and other places, a bit about how the system operated, and how the system worked.
And I have the impression that Pravda was universally understood, not to be truth, by everyone who read it, despite its title.
So we’re at a point now where our government, our prime minister said that they were the single source of truth about COVID. And I find that to be an astonishing statement, the single source of truth. I can’t think of anything being a single source of truth about anything, actually. But when you’re up against a mentality like that, then you realize there are other agendas at work. And they’re complicated, but I guess I’ll leave it at there. It’s really astonishing.
That is astonishing. And by the way, well, by the time my generation was around, everybody knew that Pravda was nonsense. But people had to pretend in their public position positions to say all those phrases about the victory of communism and blah, blah, blah. But I think that for the generation of my grandparents, for example, they genuinely accepted it. It was sacred to them, that was their meaning. And so it took three generations essentially to figure it out.
So, sooner or later, this will pass too. But I wonder what your thoughts are on what you think in the heads of the other doctors is, what … do they realize that they’re being semi raped? And they are also kind of betraying their profession, or do they … Are they subscribed to the mainstream narrative sincerely? Do they see adverse effects? Like, how does it work on average? I’m sure everybody’s different but …
It’s hard to say see … We … I’m part of this group called New Zealand Doctors Speaking out for Science. We have a website, nzdsos.com, and we’ve been trying to get other material out there for people to be informed. And I think we have a membership of about 120 or 130, which is pretty, pretty amazing, started out very small.
I think virtually all of us now are under investigation of some kind are under attack are going to be under attack by the Medical Council for daring to offer a questioning, different, different way of viewing things. Anyway, how can I tell you?
I actually think the truth about this thing is pretty self-evident. But I don’t want to come up as … speak as an Oracle. And I tell people, you better look at the stuff yourself, but look at look at everything and look at the reality. And look, for example, and you have fully vaccinated countries that are getting this COVID. How do you explain that? How good are your jabs? How long do you think you’re going to get away with … with getting these jabs and what will they lead to?
Sorry, I’m running off a little bit. I don’t know what the general run of general practitioners are thinking or what or what not … I think there are quite a number of people who are just afraid to speak out, they’re completely afraid because they’re going to get slammed.
And I think that I and others have been held up as examples. If you try to speak out or say anything against the single source of truth, we’re gonna come after you. And so people need to make a living. And they do go about doing their business. So I don’t know, I can’t speak about all this vast sea of other doctors, except that in my interactions with them, very few knew anything about very basic things like early treatment options.
Early treatment is critical. If you really want to keep people healthy, that’s one of the main things you do, right? You try to treat early, you try to do all those preventative things and … and all the treatment protocols that … Dr. McCullough and Pierre Kory and Zelenko, and the Frontline Doctors are doing great work because we do it if it’s really a pandemic, you do it right?
I don’t think these people know anything about that. In fact, they are also … they’ve said nothing, barely treatment here, they suppress the whole topic here. They’ve taken people to task for trying to prescribe some of the early treatment protocols. It’s a terrible thing. And that leads me to believe this there is there has to be another agenda. This is not about health. This is about control. And it’s devastating.
There … on the other hand, there are people who are trying to stand up and are speaking up and speaking out. And I know two other … I have two other psychiatric colleagues who are fighting the mandate that they be jabbed to retain their jobs. So they’re trying to initiate a legal action.
But I know quite a number of people who just lost their jobs: school teachers, expert people who taught for years, lost their jobs, okay? Because this mandate, that you have to be jabbed to be to continue teaching … midwives, nurses! And I know a lot of people … quite a few nurses and teachers and other people who have gotten the jab quite reluctantly, they did not want to get it, they got it under duress, under pressure, because they had no option.
They’re raising kids on their own, or they’ve got mortgages, and they’ve got, they got to feed themselves, they had no option. So what kind of government would do that to people? And in the interest of what? I have to ask the question, how many people have actually been affected by COVID here in New Zealand? It’s a miniscule number overall.
And yet, we had … there was one case in Auckland that tested positive with this faulty Polymerase Chain Reaction test, they locked the whole damn place down. It’s … it to me … it’s complete insanity, and it’s actually depraved and it’s evil.
I have to agree with your conclusion. Well, to me the fact that they were actively attacking early treatments … to me that was a litmus test because …
If they are talking about health … Sorry go ahead.
Right. My awakening to this … I’m following this very closely. And my thing is, you know, I’ve read books like, I don’t know if you know that book, Aerosmith, by Sinclair Lewis. It’s about a doctor in Tibet, and actually about a pandemic and … and how a doctor approaches the pandemic, and … anyway, one of the great dreams of all doctors really, is to find a cure for something that’s hurting people, right?
You know, so there’s a bad thing out there, my gosh, you … you race, you find a treatment to help people … treat people.
And what I noticed with this was that there was virtually nothing about any kind of treatment, they were just letting people sit around, get really sick, to the point where they get … gotten the hospital, and then when they got to the hospital, it was too late to do anything, and you know what to do! It was a terrible thing.
And there has been so much good work by Zelenko, and, as I said, McCullough, and these other people, you know … to try treatments to help people which actually … there a number of very positive studies actually seemed to work, I think Zelenko treated 7700 patients or so, only two of them died. And then, early on … this doctor Dr. Chetty, in South Africa … treated 6000 people with his regimen, no one’s died, no one was going to the hospital, a few people went to the hospital.
So there were a lot of data all around the world now about helping people and not just letting them sit … you get it … sit around and wait, and then you get sick. So I saw that the suppression of really treatment, the non-encouragement, the active work against early treatment. I think that’s criminal, all right? I think … I find no excuse for that.
I think that is criminal. And I think when this passes — and I have no doubt that sooner or later is going to pass, whether it’s now, or several generations later, or a thousand years later — but it’s going to pass, and then people will look back, and they will react the same way people are reacting today to the Nazi Germany, like, what … what was wrong with them?! How couldn’t they see that?
And then, well, if it’s soon enough, then probably some of the compliant people will try to get book deals to write about how they always knew that that was wrong, because that’s how it usually goes.
But … but, like, to me that’s such a classic story of trusting the betrayers. A person going to the hospital with full trust in American medicine … well, American medicine in my case because I’m in New York … and then essentially being murdered and treated like a nobody with no rights … being put on a ventilator or sedated.
And so to me, that’s the ultimate thing where you see the face of the machine essentially, and you are on your own your own finally after trust trusting the creation of trusted.
Yeah, I tell you what … the … I’m so … I am so I … I’ve been in a way … I’ve been living in a bubble outside of what’s happened to American medicine and medicine generally. You know in my training, I was very lucky, I went to great medical school, I went to a great hospital for my internships in my psychiatric training: Pennsylvania Hospital, the Institute of the Pennsylvania Hospital …
And the ethos there was it was patient-centered. It was always … the physician, the psychiatrist had autonomy, in conjunction with the patient. You did what you had to do, you tailor your treatments … Or the internists … I knew the internists … my internist back there, Paul Cohen, these are great, good, great doctors, you know, these were not corporate hirelings, who followed algorithms and who had no imagination.
And I’m astonished at what’s happened in the 40, 35 years or so. It’s been … medicine turned into a bunch of corporate hirelings who follow a cookbook, they call them best practice guidelines, or the algorithms that the institutions put out. That is, that is not medicine, really, that is a very … it’s a skeleton of what medicine should be.
People are highly complex, they’re highly individual. There is no one size fits all for everybody. You’ve got to take good histories, you’ve got to know everything about someone before you prescribe treatments, and take different approaches.
And it looks as if that’s all out the window because we have a single source of truth telling us just exactly what to do. Not only about any medicine event, but everything now it’s … it’s … you know, RFK book, I don’t know if you read it yet.
Oh yeah, it’s a brilliant book, very important.
It’s a brilliant book, and by the way, I understand, he doesn’t use a ghostwriter, he writes himself. He’s a superb writer. It’s a great book. And my friend, Ed Curtin in Massachusetts did a fabulous reviewer recently, I have to send you the link that …
I saw I saw that, it’s brilliant.
You see that … Ed is a friend of mine, he’s a wonderful hero. Anyway, aren’t cases … this is it! This is maybe the battle not just of our lifetime, but of all history here. Okay, what are they trying to do to us? To enslave us? To digitize us into oblivion? To really use this … what I understand this very effective social credit system in China already?
I, you know, I … as a grown up in America, growing up in Philadelphia, where the Declaration of Independence was signed, the constitutional convention was held … these principles of liberty and freedom are in our in my bones.
I mean, that’s, to me, the good America, the Great America, not America, the rampaging state that created wars everywhere, all this terrible stuff … but the principles of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and these unalienable rights, these are unalienable and they pertain to everybody, not just Americans, okay?
And now we find ourselves, all around the world, that governments, institutions, whatever you want to call them, the corporate owner structure, wants to take … wants to lead us to believe that they can do anything they want with us, they can give us … put something into our bodies that we do not want. And not to mention our minds! They do enough of that with the propaganda … but to put something into our bodies that we have made choices not to want to get?
Well, again, they want to overturn the … land … and the EU now wants to get rid of the Nuremberg Code. Isn’t that interesting? So it’s … so it’s a terrifying time. But I will say to people I’ve met here, and the newly formed groups of people who are thinking along our lines about living life and not being afraid, not living in fear.
You know, there’s a great Russian novel “Oblomov,” I’m sure you’ve read it, okay? That’s about a guy who lived and didn’t get out of his bed, right? He just laid in his bed all the time to be safe. So do we want to live life in a little room and order everything from online and get it delivered and just do nothing? Is this the vision of the future so we can be safe … safe? There’s no safety in that.
Well, the safety myth is just a myth because how safe, are you if you do away with your own immune system, and then you’re stuck with going to the hospital and being murdered? That’s not very safe.
That is not. Exactly, that is not being safe. Exactly. And I, as I said, you know this, this thing they’re trying to force on people … look up the ingredients, look at the tremendous number of adverse events … we are only a year or a year and a half into it anyway, you don’t know any of the midterm or long term consequences.
If you … you couldn’t do it, you couldn’t do a drug trial and have a drug come out with a trial like this with this kind of data. They’d squash that drug within minutes, right … would fail. But somehow for the magical jab, it gets a free pass.
Apparently there are no contraindications! I mean, I am trying to find what are the contraindications here. Over here, I think, the one counterindication is you have to be allergic to propylene glycol or something like that. But the number of exemptions here … they have clamped down. They’ve made such draconian impositions on who can be exempt from this. It’s … it’s absolutely evil, okay?
So this thing apparently, according to the myth … the myth of safe … people make the myth of safety. They make the myth of the … the … the perfect, wonderful, safe as water jab, right? It’s safe as water. Right? No contraindications. I had a discussion … I’ll tell you something very interesting.
I happened to run into a man I hadn’t seen in about 10 years, I used to … he used to live near in my old neighborhood around here in New Zealand, and … and we’re talking … he’s oh, by the way, I had I had a heart attack about a month ago. I said, Oh my gosh, I’m sorry to hear that. And then I said, I asked the question. I said, “You know … this … hope you don’t mind if I asked, but did you get the jab?” “Oh, yeah, I had the second job three days before the heart attack.”
I said, “Gee, I’m sorry.” But he had made no connection. He didn’t consider the heart attack to be related to the jab, there was no report of an adverse event. He just thought, well, this is just what happens in life, you know. And he went on and on his merry way. And he’s got, you know, he’s resigned, having some cardiac disease and what not.
But I think that’s a measure of the level to which people have been stupefied. If I were to give a medicine to somebody, three days after a heart attack, I can guarantee you people will be breathing down my neck saying what the hell happened over here? Why did you … why did you give this medicine? How could this patient get the heart … we have to look into it.
Even if there’s nothing wrong, you want to look into it, right? There’s some kind of correlation, but the level of … of acceptance and the level of propaganda that … it’s just astonishing. It’s absolutely astonishing.
People say you’re an antivaxxer … you’re, well, first of all, whether I’m an anti pro Vax, that is not the defining characteristic of a human being. Since when did vaccination is the status of like the gold standard of whether you’re a noble or ignoble human being? That’s ridiculous, right?
But I’ve had vaccinations, my kids had vaccinations. Okay? Good. I just … if I choose not to have a vaccination, even a good one, even you know a traditional one that actually works, that’s my choice. That’s my choice, okay?
Well, I think on the positive side, a lot of people started doubting things and researching things that they would have never researched or doubted, prior to this. Because the past two years have presented us with such an exaggerated, cartoonish version of corruption, that many people who would have never in their lives even thought about researching anything like that … They were just faced with the inevitability … they have to, and now they’re looking into the entire system.
And maybe they realize before, and maybe the things that they just took for granted, maybe those things weren’t true, either. And I think that’s a very useful exercise, whatever the conclusion is, depends on the person and the experience and what they look into.
But I think that’s necessary for every human being to have a direct relationship with the world. And as far as the degree of gaslighting, it is quite astounding, and I’m actually mad, I’m mad about people, innocent people being so abused. Because to me, I used to be … I used to be in an abusive marriage, like, classic very bad.
And that was one of the reasons why I did not really go for being terrified by this thing so badly, because initially I got terrified just like everybody but like terrified as in, you don’t know, maybe it’s a deadly virus, you have to be careful, you have to wash the services and all that.
But then very quickly, when I saw the messaging … and the messaging was identical in tone to what my abusive ex was saying, as in, don’t trust your senses, if you have any doubts about what you’re told, you’re a bad person, you have to obey, you … you know, don’t have contact with people, or things like that.
I was like, wait a second. I know, I’ve seen this movie, it wasn’t very benevolent. I cannot do that for the second time. Because the first time it was very painful. So that was one of the reasons that actually helped me. And also actually, I was sick. And I definitely didn’t even think about going anywhere in hospital. But yeah, yeah, heavy, it was intensely, it was intense suffering.
And through the degree of that suffering, I remembered, again, I was reinstated in my feeling that life is worth living. And life means being fully alive. Live life means not being afraid. And that’s what life is. So it doesn’t mean that because the disease cause suffering, now I have to spend the rest of my life under the table, that’s just not an option. So …
Well exactly. And I think you made a beautiful parallel to this, this relationship of an abusive, abusive marriage, or an abusive relationship, where you’re told you can’t trust yourself, you just have to obey. And, and the … and the really, the victim is turned into kind of an abuser, by the real abuser. It’s a very sick, reverse psychology. And that’s all over with this whole thing, okay.
They are doing the same … they really are doing the same thing, you know this blackmail, this extortion, to get this jab, not to … not to do … not to have informed consent, really, you know, not to look at all the ingredients … to show us transparently what the deals are.
What’s Pfizer’s deal with these different countries? What do they have in that and that sweetheart deal? Okay, or Moderna or any of these things? So it goes in all those ways.
One of the other things, too, is now, my friends, Libby Handros and John Kirby have done this series on the pandemic, which has been it’s been a tremendous service to all of us. And I remember the very outset, you remember, they interviewed John Ioannidis. This guy, you know, he is one of the most highly cited statisticians and epidemiologists in the world saying, we’re looking at the numbers. Yeah, this doesn’t look, this looks pretty much like maybe a bad flu.
And they have had such a beautiful record of interviews with such luminaries. And, again, that gives me hope that we have good, great work out there, people are stepping up to the plate, that these filmmakers and producers are, are helping us to enlighten ourselves and get to the truth, you know, and that’s been wonderful.
So I’m also been wonderful … I haven’t seen so many … I’m looking around, there’s so many accomplished talented people I never knew existed, my God! I feel so … inferior, they’ve got 5000 degrees, they’ve got … physics, and medicine, and nuclear this, and whatever.
And they … and they know about everything, and law degrees, and medicine, and … and who knows what, they’re all … they’re … I can’t … I can’t believe how competent these people are, and … but they’re the ones who are speaking up, you know, they know or they can smell a rat when they … when a rat’s running around.
Oh, that is beautiful. I think the past two years really brought out the best and the worst out of us, and my life in America at least has never felt more real than what it feels now amazingly, because everything under pressure, everything came out. And by the way, Libby and John is so wonderful. I love them so much, and …
You mentioned New York … I love New York. I spend a lot of time in New York. My father’s from New York. It’s a great place. Well I don’t know if it still is. But you know, there’s I think I’ve mentioned for this famous line in “Casablanca” where Humphrey Bogart sitting down with the … with Major Strasser, and he’s asked by one of the Germans there at the table … and this is unoccupied … this is unoccupied France by the Blanca …
“Well, how would you like it if the Nazis were in New York?” or something like that, and Bogart says, “Well, there are certain areas of New York I wouldn’t advise you to try to invade.” You know, there was this feel about New York, New York’s a tough place. We’re not going to take this kind of stuff. Right? What … what happened to that New York? Like, it’s like a different New York has happened.
No it is … actually it is … it is heartbreaking because I think that’s the gaslighting. I think they just really … well, from what I researched, a team of psychologists was hired … and high-end consultants were hired to devise the plans on how to scare people. And so that was by design.
Yeah, right, exactly! You got it right … now, they’ve turned the, you know, the New York that is repped to be a very tough place of really hard-fighting people … you can’t to mess with them, right? And now everyone is forming a lockstep, or goosestep, I should say … this stuff is terrible.
Early in the pandemic, when our mayor, I think he suggested some kind of a reporting system to report people who weren’t following the pandemic measures … or social distancing … and that was met with a cursing, like, you know, like bad words. Not today. Not today! It’s such a difference.
I know. And even over here too, this idea of snitching … that last thing you want to be is a rat, you don’t rat your neighbors, your friends, you know, nobody does that, right? And they’ve been … they’ve been encouraging this kind of thing, you know, and it’s terrible.
But I would like at some point, talk about some of the other things, maybe some artistic things. I think one of the ways to stay alive in terrible times, as a lot of people know, like Xiaobo, and other people, and everybody, you know, is through creativity and really the triumph of the human spirit.
And, and I think, no matter what happens, we have to preserve that. That’s that is our, our beautiful passion. That’s why I write, I’ve done some theatrical … theatrical stuff, and some film and poetry. And I’ve written quite a number of books.
And I’m very, … actually, I wrote this last book, which you have, “Olympia,” and that was probably about six years in the thinking anyway, and, and I’m very happy with I’m very proud of this book, I feel as if this is something that … what a lot of things together for me.
So hopefully, there’ll be other books as well. Right now I’m barred from doing anything theatrical … which is quite a quite challenging, but I’m hoping that we get a good break in the next three or four months and, and maybe things maybe … maybe things really will change.
Well, you actually, you stole my question, because my next question to you was going to be about your writing and your books. So thank you for preempting the thought, and … and then to ask you also what initially brought you to your writing career? And I also have another book by you, so …
Thank you very much.
Yeah, really, your writing is beautiful. So what brought you … what made you into an author initially, what was the event, or …?
I was always, I was a writer, from being from a teenager, from my teenage years. And I was always writing poetry and short stories and what not. And I was also … when I went to Trinity College in Dublin, as an undergraduate, I had a year abroad there, and I got involved in theater when I was there. And I came back to the States and I kept up some theatrical pursuits.
And I was always writing in some way or the other. But I think honestly, I think I was a writer who didn’t quite have something to write about, until I became more mature until I … I involved myself … I got my hands dirty in the world of living. And the world of living for me was the world of medicine, the world of psychiatry, and life, okay …
And, and I believe that the move to New Zealand really helped to kind of catalyze things, to allow me to really, really gather my energies and start writing in a way that I think I’m happier with … has been decent writings, not just, you know … they’re people … sometimes you have an impulse. You want to write … when it’s like, you want to shout, you want to say something, but you have nothing to say.
I think that everything that I had stored within me was coming to the surface, and that I could finally put it together and say the things that I felt compelled to say, in my poetry and my plays and my theatrical things, and my … my little films, and my novels, especially since I’ve come here, so …
So I’ve written a few … Anyway, I don’t get into everything I’ve written, but I wrote two very, I think very funny books that are set in New York, and they involve accountants, kind of the amorous adventures of some goofy accountants. I think they’re quite funny. But I think they’re funny because the language is very … it’s all in the language, okay … And that’s why I think they are quite funny.
And the “Venetian Rogues.” … “Olympia” really comes out of one of the characters of “Venetian Rogues” and … and that’s a different kind of writing altogether. And those books are linked.
Oh, thank you for being so multi-talented. And also thank you for demonstrating that life doesn’t end when at the totalitarian regime sets in. It’s … you know.
That’s a good … that’s a good point. I mean, I, you know, Solzhenitsyn would say that as well. You know, Solzhenitsyn, that tremendous hero doing what he did. I don’t know what to say. I mean, you … when you work, you are doing the same thing, and people have to continue to celebrate our humanity.
And as I said, well, you know, the group of people I’ve gotten in touch with here, who are these believers in liberty and question the single source of truth, these are all to a person animated, really lively, really good people … It’s been such a pleasure to come into contact with this group of people, I would never really have known necessarily, and to see that they’ve all they’ve all gotten such tremendous spirit, and such goodness.
And I think the other thing too, I’ve used the word “evil” a few times here … I really think I’ve used that word in my life … I can’t I think … I probably used the word “evil” about half a dozen times in my life, until recently. And I can’t think of any other word now to describe what’s going on.
I tell people, evil isn’t the devil with horns and the tail and the monster … evil, is … is smiling, is just go along, just don’t make any noise, just play ball, just let it happen. That’s, that’s really evil. Evil has many, many guises, okay?
And the evil we have to be concerned about is evil that’s trying to convince us that we should be apart from each other, we should have to take something and violate our bodies even if we don’t want that, that we should look askance at people who cherish their own liberty, that we should be considered dangerous to each other, we have to wear a mask all the time, or we have to keep a distance.
This this is really … is this the world we want to live in, who wants to make the kind of world? Who wants to live in this kind of world?
Well, the people who want to make that kind of world on top are probably very, very, very, very sick on the inside. I think it’s impossible to guess what’s in their heads but … whether they want to do it because they think of themselves as saviors or whether they want to do it because they like killing people, doesn’t matter because the end result is more or less the same if we accept it.
So to me, the main battle is the battle on the inside. And I think what they’re really trying to make people do is self-betrayal. And that’s kind of an internal trick of because when a person’s self-betrays a person becomes food. And then, hopefully there is some kind of a kind growth coming out of it. And that can involve great pain. But then after great pain, hopefully there’s some kind of a resolution but …
That’s a great point … they’re trying to convince us to betray ourselves. And that gets back to the abuser psychology really, doesn’t it? The same kind of thing, only on a large scale. And we have to fight against that. And I believe we’re going to win that fight. I really do. I think … I think we have good on our side!
You know, we’re kind people trying to do the right thing. Trying to celebrate the best of humanity, not the worst, now the worst is fearful, suspicious, vindictive, get rid of people. And you know, I know you know about history, human history, the history of the world is not a necessarily a beautiful fairy tale. There have been battles like this going on, but they’ve been on a smaller scale because the empires were smaller.
The places … the locales were smaller. There were always despots and tyrants and, and terrible things and extirpations and, you know, you know, all this, but we are now faced with something that is so global, and so uniform. It’s really terrifying. And that’s why as far as RFK Jr. says in his book, this is our … this is a battle for our lives.
This might be the battle for all of our lives, of all our time and, and this is no time to sit back and be complicit.
I like to be remembered more for my writing, really, my novels. I wish people would read them, than anything else. Because I think they’re … I am really most … I guess the best of me. The best of me is in these writing, my poetry, my novels, these artistic creations. And … and I hope that … I hope that they … I hope people do check in on them and I read them at some point, and … and I hope that they themselves engage in creative enterprises!
I always … I came to the conclusion in working and as I did in analysis and, and Curtis kids, you know, people unless you cultivate some elements of creativity within yourself, life is going to be a much poorer experience. But if you can, if you can do that, and everyone is creative in some way, we all have our own different ways of being creative.
That is really the essence of the joy of life. That’s the joy of living and loving, and creativity and play. These are essential functions of the human spirit.
I have to agree. Well, thank you again for being such a wonderful and brave human being with so many talents. Well, last question. So where can people find more information about you or get in touch with you if they want to talk to you? So, a website …?
They can just … they can just email me, that’s all. They can email me if they like. I have a website I’ve never … I haven’t upgraded my website in a few years that … where my poetry is but they can email me and I can send them links to things and what not.
Well, thank you again, it was wonderful to talk to you, and maybe we’ll talk again and …
Thank you very much and thank you again for the work you’re doing, really … I really enjoyed reading your pieces, they are brilliant. And as a young person with such spirit and such articulateness, it’s a … it’s really an inspiration. So …
Thank you, likewise.
Thank you very much, Tessa!
Thank you. Bye-bye.
About the Author
To find more of Tessa Lena’s work, be sure to check out her bio, Tessa Fights Robots.